The Ho-IX
Maximum Speed 600+ mph Kenneth Arnold and his drawing of what he saw in 1947
Incredible as this operational Horten design was, it did NOT represent the pinnacle of German advanced WWII flight technology.
There were a number of brilliant German scientists and engineers working on flying disc-shaped craft, many of which used traditional rocket/jet propulsion techniques…but some apparently used methods far in advance of anything commonly known at that time. Or now, for that matter
Dr. Richard Miethe whose group allegedly built saucer craft at Breslau came to Canada after the war and worked on saucer designs with the A.V. Roe Company on a joint American-Canadian project which ‘officially’ produced only a barely functional ‘hovercraft’ type ‘saucer.’ Most researchers today consider the Roe ‘saucer’ nothing less than a diversion. What was Miethe really working on?
Another highly-advanced group was led by Dr. Viktor Schauberger, who worked in Austria at the Kertl factory in Vienna. Schauberger’s incredible craft allegedly utilized a tornado-like vortex which produced magnetic effects said to cause levitation. Two Schauberger models, both made of copper, were said to have been built with one of them successfully test flown. The story goes that it flew so well, in fact, that it impacted the inside roof of the hangar and was destroyed.
The SS which was apparently overseeing this and all German saucer research, allegedly stopped further experimentation after an accident, dismissed Schauberger, and took all of his work and wizardry to some other location for further development. After the war, Schauberger was lured to the US by an alleged CIA front company and was then duped into signing a contract in English (he knew only German) giving the company all rights and title to his inventions, concepts, and designs. He was then returned to Austria…and died five days later.
As stated earlier, many of the German saucer craft were predicated upon known, if quite exotic, technology. Our source for the extraordinary drawing below has been thoroughly interviewed over a lengthy period of time and is known to be of impeccable integrity. We have seen some of the hundreds of wartime documents from his long service with the Horten brothers, including personal correspondence from them to him.
When queried as to how he was able to obtain the drawing of the disc craft below, he would only say, “Sneaky…sneaky. No one was ever to know anything about this…I had to get the drawing from a friend who was very close to the project.” He said he would never compromise his friend by disclosing his identity.
Our source described how he was stationed at an abase in Prague during the war while undergoing advanced mechanical training and also doing some teaching. On a number of occasions during his time at the base he heard, what he believes, was the disc-shaped vehicle shown in the drawing below being test flown. We say ‘heard’ because all those living on, or even near, the test area of the base were utterly forbidden to look out the windows…under penalty of being shot on the spot. In fact, all the windows in homes facing the test area were blacked out. No exceptions. He described the sound of the craft as absolutely ‘deafening.’ This would come as no surprise, given the 5 engines…three for lift and two for forward thrust…indicated in the drawing below. This is a simple overview schematic of the craft which does not, obviously, reflect the finished detail of the pilot(s) controls, seating, and final interior configuration of the operational model.
Our source said the engines were not typical jet engines but were kerosene-fueled typical of a type which he was told were capable of producing very high speeds. The drawing in his possession and shown here may be of the Schriever disc which was said to have used rotating metallic vanes set within the perimeter of the disc to achieve vertical lift similar to produced a helicopter. Once airborne, the two thrust turbines took over to push the craft on its way. Our source says he believes the first test flight occurred in 1942.
What happened to these craft after the war? Our source says that both the Russians and Americans were aware of the ultra-secret German disc research programs and had an agreement they would not shoot the discs down or apparently bomb the research facilities because the craft posed no hostile threat…unlike the facilities at Peenemunde. The eventual outcome of the war was a virtual certainty and both countries wanted the disc technology as one of the prime spoils of war.
As research continues probing the advanced German WWII programs, it is becoming more evident that at least some of the early – and current – UFO sightings may be directly related to, and descendants of, disc craft like the one depicted in this newly unearthed historic drawing.
We asked for a statement on this report from British disc researcher Tim Matthews. Our thanks to Tim for the following response:
By Tim Matthews
2-12-99 “Recent developments involving the emergence of some new evidence for the existence of an advanced discplane designed by a joint Heinkel/BMW team of engineers headed by Dr. Richard Miethe at a variety of facilities in Prague, Czechoslovakia, from 1942/3 are most intriguing.
There are several important points to note in terms of the witness testimony…that he heard the test-flights of a discplane whilst stationed at Prague from 1942.
1 – He does not claim to have actually seen the aircraft.
2 – As a result we have to accept that the information relating specifically to performance is second-hand and unverifiable.
3 – There is no evidence in any text relating to high-performance advanced German aircraft and missile developments during World War Two that indicate the speeds claimed for the ‘Flugkreisel’ or ‘flying saucer’.
Nevertheless, there were significant developments in Prague some of which were focused upon the Kbely (Gbell) airfield. The airfield is still in existence and nowadays a Czech aviation museum and archive are located on the spot where early German discs were tested. The chief archivist tells me that all the information on German projects were taken in 1945.
Some of the best evidence relating to the existence of this discplane, said by some to be the ‘Versuchs 7’ and ‘Versuchs 8’ (V7/V8) models emerged in an article featured in the German-language magazine “Flugzeug” (“Aircraft”) dated 2/1989 (page 52) which details a sighting by a witness in August/September 1943 at the Kbely airfield.
The disc completed a very simple take-off and landing exercise and the test was witnessed by several people. The disc was said to be housed in a nearby hangar.
It is important to note that the Russians captured the facility on or about the 10th May 1945. It is true that the allies did have a great deal of information about advanced German technologies and this is covered in my book “UFO Revelation”. I am not sure that there was any ‘agreement’ between the Russians and Americans in terms of similar technologies given our certain knowledge that the two competed for the spoils of war in a very aggressive manner. The Nordhausen example is perhaps the best….
Of course many of the records have been buried and are out of our reach – even after 54 years……
There is little evidence of high performance in any witness statement relating to the discplane tests, excepting the information supplied by Flight Captain Rudolph Schriever in several German newspapers in 1950.
The picture supplied by the witness, who now lives in the USA, is exactly the same as that featured in the original version of the Schriever story made available in an International News Service release dated 11th April, 1950, which I have in my possession. (The story was originally featured in “Der Spiegel”, dated 30th March 1950, in an article entitled “Untertassen-Flieger Kombination”.) The picture is also shown in the Hatcher Childress/Renate Vesco “Man-Made UFOs 1944-1994” (Adventures Unlimited Press) in the illustrated section between pages 241 and 243.
I suspect that talk of supersonic speeds for flying discs were an indication of those thought to be achievable by scientists after detailed research and development. I have no doubt that German discplanes flew and that they showed great potential but we can rule out high Mach flight or anything approaching it. Even the better postwar discplane sightings tended to indicate speeds of between 300-600 mph. The German most closely associated postwar discplane development for the US Air Force (US Navy programmes developed earlier from the Chance-Vought XF5U-1 and related to jet-powered ‘pancake’ designs) was Dr. Richard Miethe who worked closely with John C Frost and H Moody for AV Roe in Canada. Miethe was the brains behind efforts to build the ultimate VTOL discplane based upon German work on the ‘radial flow engine’ noted in the previously “Top Secret” ‘Project Silver Bug’ or ‘Project Y’ papers (dated 1955) that led to the emergence of several variants including a disc interceptor (see WS 606A/B) that was perhaps a forerunner to the more reliable YF-12.
Information on Miethe is scare although is work for the USAF has been acknowledged by former Secretary to the USAF Dr. Alexander Flax. Several FOIA appeals for information on Miethe have gone to appeal and have been unsuccessful. There is an ongoing attempt to bury the truth about the German input into US discplane Research and Development and this might in part relate to WW2 war crimes involving slave labourers who ‘worked’ for BMW. Information on ‘Operation Paperclip’ is also scare and it is to be hoped that this new witness might be able to shed new light on this and similar activities…..
The witness notes the use of kerosene in a multi-engine VTOL disc. In fact most jets use kerosene anyway although it might be the case that the witness is talking about an early ‘radial flow’ engine. This seems to be suggested by his testimony relating to a hybrid helicopter/plane. (Curiously the jet-powered XF5U-1 was said to have similar novel qualities.)
Nevertheless, the suggestion that a five-engine prototype disc could have overcome the serious problems of parasitic drag and flown at high speed is not a realistic one. Even if some sort of Schauberger system of ‘levitation’ is invoked then there are serious problems.
(On a separate note work into similar systems HAS taken place at the University of Houston and was conducted by the late Dr. Mikhael Goldshtik. His ‘vortex thruster’ system is said to be a development along similar lines – some 50 years after Schauberger! Therefore the early German work seems to have been based upon some real science and might be said to have been vindicated)
In terms of the actual Schriever discplane diagram supplied there is no way that a pilot could have flown the aircraft at high speed in a standing position although it is understood that the 1950 picture was an artists impression. I would expect that in an aircraft attempting to overcome speeds approaching the supersonic regime (or as we are told; the high Mach regime!) the only solution, and one favoured by several of the better German aerodynamicists and designers would be to put the pilot in a prone position. This was also suggested specifically for the flight involving high ‘g’ turns expected from the more advanced AVRO discplanes and various other advanced aircraft of the mid-1950s. (Prone position had also been tested in the Lockheed F-80E and a variant of the B-17 bomber. This work was undertaken by a ‘Paperclip’ scientist Dr. Hans Amtmann at Wright Field)
In terms of Vertical take-off and landing, which requires great control at low speed, the only way for a pilot in this position, or in a seated position, would be to see through an inset window in the floor of the aircraft.
The large bubble cockpit shown in the picture would be a killer in terms of high speed flight and a blended design would be expected. We cast our minds back to the sleek early postwar supersonic jets and earlier German missiles……..
One thing is for sure; the information that the witness has about the Horten brothers aircraft is of the greatest potential significance and certainly his claim to have a Horten (design) glider stored away is one that will lead to great interest from all modern-day advocates of the flying wing and those interested in historical aircraft research. In 1942 the Hortens’ had still not received much government funding although many of their gliders were being flown. It wasn’t until 1944 that new life was breathed into the company after Goering saw the possibilities of developing the aircraft as a long range bomber. I am not aware of any specialist training relating to the test-flights of the Horten aircraft from 1944. The aircraft were actually flown by Heinz Scheidhauer, Erwin Ziller and Walter Horten himself. Knemeyer was the chief Reichsluftfahrtsministirium (RLM) test pilot. Testing took place in Oranienburg and Gottingen. (Josef Stuper undertook early flight tests with the HVc in 1943). Work on the Horten wings took place at those facilities and at Brandis and Friedrichsrode (where the Americans got hold of them).
There is no information on flight testing or training re; the Horten wing in Czechoslovakia.
In order to fully convince the world the witness must be allowed to provide as much corroborative evidence as he can to investigators so that it may be fully checked. One thing is for sure; as times goes by, and though our efforts, the truth about man-made UFOs is slowly starting to emerge……”
Tim Matthews, 12th Feb. 1999
_________ Anyone with further data on German discs is urged to contact either Jeff Rense or Tim Matthews. All responses will be held in the strictest confidence.
Note – We have been advised by Bill Few that the same Schriever schematic is in the book UFO Crash At Aztec by Bill Steinman, 1987, pg. 510. “Schriever says the blueprints were stolen for the machine he calls a ‘flying top’ before Germany’s collapse and says the machine would be capable of 2600 mph and a radius of 4000 miles. The article states he would be willing to build one for the U.S. the time required being 6-9 months.